Jewish Life More Visible in Gulf Countries as AGJC Celebrates First Anniversary [VIDEO]

Rabbi Elie Abadie, spiritual leader of the AGJC, says, ‘Education is practically the number one priority of any Jewish community. ... The establishment of a school is of utmost priority for us.’

Jews have resided in the Arab Gulf region for centuries – in parts of the region, for millennia – but their recent history has seen a sea change with the establishment, in 2021, of the Association of Gulf Jewish Communities. While each country has its own flavor and experience, suddenly, Jewish community services are now more readily available throughout the region than they ever have been before. The Media Line’s Felice Friedson sat down with Rabbi Elie Abadie, the United Arab Emirates-based spiritual leader of the AGJC, and AGJC President Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo, who lives in Bahrain, for an extensive interview. This is followed by an interview with Rafael Schwartz, an AGJC board member who lives in Kuwait. The organization is active in Oman, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia, as well.

The Media Line: We’re a region which prides itself on longevity and its ancient roots. Much has happened in the modern Gulf. The Abraham Accords was a game-changer in creating an environment to expose Jewish life in the Middle East. One year ago, the AGJC – the Association of Gulf Jewish Communities – was inaugurated. Joining me today is Rabbi Elie Abadie, the senior and resident rabbi from the UAE. And also with me is Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo, who is the president of the AGJC, and chairman of the board of the House of Ten Commandments. Rabbi Abadie, in the UAE, and of course, Mr. Nonoo in Bahrain, thank you gentleman for joining me today!

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Pleasure! Pleasure!

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you, Felice!

TML: One year later, [it’s] very exciting. No one would have thought that we would have seen this moment. Many people in the world probably thought that the Jewish community has dwindled [and] there’s no news, but what can you share. Let’s start with Rabbi Abadie.

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, certainly at least here in the UAE, the Jewish community has doubled in size since the Abraham Accords, and those are the number of people that are active in the community. There’s certainly many more Jews living in the UAE that are not very active in the community, and so the actual number is not very well known, but there’s certainly … the active amount of people has really doubled since the Abraham Accords.

TML: You grew up in the Middle East, and I know when I spoke with you when you were about to embark on this role and had many major plans, looking back you were hopeful. [Do] you feel that many of the things that you were dreaming of accomplishing have happened?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Absolutely! Coming back, having been born in an Arab country [and then having] left for several decades, and now back in the same region, it certainly gives a great feeling of nostalgia and wanting to go back to one’s own roots, and one’s own society and culture. Of course, even in a short year, we have been able to accomplish many milestones that we’re going to build upon them for even the future. And there are more and more milestones to achieve in this area.

TML: Before we embark on talking on some of those milestones, let’s talk a minute to Ebrahim, because here you are. Your family came in the late 1800s. There are Jews living there. Many people only learned about that as the Abraham Accords were taking shape, so from your perspective, did you ever imagine that Bahrain would become such a focal point, particularly in this area?

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Bismillah, well, thank you Felice for allowing me to give you an idea about what it feels like to be a Jew in Bahrain now, but of course, we’re not strangers to Jewish life in Bahrain in the sense that we used to practice everything at home. Of course, since 1948, things rapidly changed, and before 1948 we had about 800 Jews living and working in Manama. So, we’re kind of like the indigenous community. We’re Bahrainis. First and foremost, we’re Bahrainis, and we feel Bahrainis. We’re Iraqis originally, but we’ve become kind of a part of the Bahraini fabric, so to speak, and of course, being a part of the Bahrain fabric means you kind of inherit a kind of culture; the Bahraini culture. And the Bahraini culture is a wonderful culture that we’re sharing now with so many visitors – hundreds of visitors – who are coming over since the Abraham Accords, and they’re very excited to see this kind of culture.

But the point being, before 1948, we had 800 Jews living in Manama, and of course, the rabbi at the time, he established the synagogue for them, and Jewish life was flourishing at that time. It was really flourishing to the degree, and I’ve got to tell you this story very quickly, that Bahraini neighbors, Muslim neighbors, who were like living next door to Jewish homes, they would help the Jewish families during Yom Kippur by simply sending their children into the house to switch on and off the lights at the appropriate times because they knew that the Jews were very very strict with Yom Kippur, and they wouldn’t touch light switches and any other electrical outlet.

So, they would send their kids into the house to do all those essential things. You know, it could be the air conditioning, switching it on and off; stuff like that. The lights. So, it was kind of like a way in which they were living together which was incredibly kind of like neighborly, and that I have heard from my own parents, [and] from my aunts and uncles who actually when they were children actually saw that. So, it’s that kind of culture that we have in Bahrain that we grew up [with]. So, the Bahrainis know about Jews. It’s not like we’re bringing in expatriates from outside who don’t have any experience with the Bahrainis.

TML: How many Jews actually reside in Bahrain today?

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: At the moment, there are only 50. Since 1948, everything dwindled, and the issue is that when you have children, you kind of end up sending them abroad to study, but of course, when you send them abroad to study, Felice, what ends up happening is that they stay outside. They sort of find their way outside, and they don’t want to come back, so that’s something that the population here, the Jewish community, is an aging community. I’m 62 and I’m one of the younger ones.

TML: Which makes it that more interesting to see the beit din, which I want you to explain evolving in Bahrain and not the UAE, so I think that you both could weigh in on this question. Why Bahrain?

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Absolutely! Of course, us being an indigenous population, we have a very good rapport with the authorities, and the authorities are very keen to see us being able to provide all the necessary services that are required for the community. Now, of course, one of the main points being is the beit din, so we’re quite happy under the umbrella of the House of the Ten Commandments, which is our synagogue, and by the way, it is the only synagogue that has been in the Gulf operational now for some time, so it is under that synagogue management [that] we are able to actually create the beit din, so that’s why we are going ahead and hoping to set [it] up here in Bahrain.

TML: Rabbi, if you can elaborate a little bit on the beit din, and for those that don’t understand what that means, explain what a beit din is, and its services, and then please take us beyond disputes, judicial disputes, and things that are happening in terms of the life-cycle events that happen in Judaism in the Middle East.

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, so a beit din is basically a Jewish religious court. A Jewish religious court is a court that that adjudicates not just disputes and things like that, but also records marriages [and] births, Jewish life milestones that are recorded officially. And they are basically recognized officially.

The institution of the beit din goes back all the way to biblical times, when Moses took out the Israelites from Egypt and his father-in-law suggested that he should establish court of 100, of 50, of 10, and so on and so forth. So that institution has been with the Jewish people since its inception as a people and as a nation.

Especially in the Arab and the Islamic world, that agreement goes back to the Treaty of Omar recognizing Judaism as a bona fide religion, as a legitimate religion, and the Jews, as the People of the Book, and therefore they have the right and the privilege to establish their own courts to adjudicate their personal status and their own religious precepts. That might include a dispute, either family disputes, inheritance disputes, or a business dispute if they so choose to go to beit din to be adjudicated.

So, that’s why anywhere there is a Jewish community, there’s usually a beit din. In a city where there is none, then the closest city to that Jewish community will have a beit din.

TML: So, if there is a problem in the UAE, or Saudi Arabia, or Amman, it’s coming to Bahrain?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, yeah! I mean, this beit din is supposed to serve the Gulf region where are the Jewish communities in the Gulf are residing, so yes, indeed. Indeed. And now, with modern technology, those hearings can be done with Zoom no matter which country the person is [in]. They don’t have to come physically to Bahrain, or to any other country to be adjudicated.

TML: Which brings me to the next question. You’re not flying to Saudi Arabia or Qatar every day. There are Jews that are there. I don’t know if you can sort of enlighten us in terms of how many Jews are living in some of these countries, because many people have no clue. And of course, there are security issues here in certain places, but try to share a little bit so people can understand what’s really happening.

Rabbi Elie Abadie: So, I haven’t been flying every day, first because there was some COVID restrictions in those countries, and actually in all of the countries around the Gulf, and it becomes a little bit cumbersome to try and overcome some of those restrictions, but we have been in touch as I said, via Zoom, via texting, via calls, to the Jews that live in those countries and try to address their needs, and try to provide them services that they so much need and so much want. And that’s what we’ve been doing this past year since I came to the region.

TML: Examples?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, we did life cycle events like a bat mitzvah in Oman, a bar mitzvah in Bahrain, a wedding in Bahrain, and of course, bar mitzvahs, bat mitzvahs, and weddings here in the UAE, and that’s the life-cycle area. In the area of holidays, we were able to provide matzah and haroset for Passover holiday. We provided a reading of a megillah for the Purim holiday. We provided the shofar and spiritual enrichment for the High Holy Days, and so on and so forth.

TML: So, can we go back to the numbers? Can anybody help us understand that a little bit better, or is it really difficult to say?

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Sorry, Felice. Can I just jump in there?

TML: Sure!

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Because we actually have a service on a regular basis here in Bahrain at the synagogue, and we have had visitors from Saudi Arabia, and among them some Jewish people who work in universities over there. Of course, it’s very easy for them to come to Bahrain for a weekend. And when they came over, they were really happy to know that there is like a Jewish infrastructure here in Bahrain, and for them, it’s kind of like a support. It kind of like shows them that it’s safe to be around in the region because there are other Jews around, so if they need anything they are fully aware that they can come to Bahrain.

TML: Well, it’s an interesting conversation, because five years ago, nobody would be speaking out loud about some of these issues, and for the most part, most Jews would be fearful to acknowledge that they are in many of these countries [and some] still do. And I think if you look five years from now, where do you both think we will be?

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Well, I do believe that the communities will grow in size and in number. The more opening that the countries will extend themselves to, the more in the increase in the growth of the Jewish community. I do believe that some of the other AGJC countries will eventually open up, and they will recognize the presence of the Jewish community of faith, and that will certainly increase their number, because if it’s in an area where there is tolerance, [and] there is coexistence, [and] there is respect – mutual respect to each other – [then] there is opportunities for business and growth. You’re going to find Jews moving here. Many of them either because they want the new horizons in their lives, a new opportunity, [and] others will, if not try and run away, will try to avoid, if not daily, but on a regular basis, antisemitic attacks on a regular basis in their countries, like in Europe [and] even in North America it is happening. And when they see that there is tolerance, there is coexistence, and there is growth, and thriving Jewish communities in the Gulf, I think those Jews will be moving to this area to be a part of it. So, I see an exponential growth, actually, in this region.

TML: For many of the Jews that keep kosher, it’s been a life-changer for them in travel, and you have now a certification agency. Tell us a little bit about the agency in terms of how it’s assisting throughout the Gulf. There’s a lot happening in the UAE. What’s happening in Bahrain?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, as you know, kosher food is something very very important to many Jews, and whenever they travel they want to make sure that there is definitely a level of kosher food, either as tourists, or as businessmen, or as people who want to settle there and live there, or even spend a few weeks there [here], because of business or for whatever reason, and so we have to provide that service where we certify not just restaurants but products, ingredients, and any other products that come from other countries are imported into this area, and we certify them as sort of a household [item], because they want to go to the supermarket and make sure that they have kosher food to buy for their own home, [and] not just going to eat [out] in a restaurant, so we have to be able to be there and provide that service. And of course, it’s going to be spreading throughout the rest of the [Gulf] countries, and those countries that don’t have a local kosher [authority], can obtain [food] from the UAE and Bahrain, and it will be shipped to them and [then] they will receive it as needed.

TML: From a business standpoint, because you’re seeing it from a rabbinical standpoint, and sometimes the two do mesh, do you see a tremendous change and boost economically? I mean, can you speak to some of that?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, absolutely! I mean, the businesspeople are making the money; not the certification agency, so of course, it’s a great opportunity for business, because you’re talking about a market worth billions of dollars worldwide. It’s not a small market. It’s really billions of dollars.

TML: Is there anything you can’t get today?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: That we cannot get today? Pretty much we can get everything, we just need to ask for it and look for it, and it will be found. Absolutely!

TML: Ebrahim, you were involved. You were in government in the Shura Council. Do you feel that those days helped to broaden the understanding of the Jewish community living for so many years in Bahrain? And you speak again about interfaith relations.

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Absolutely! What I’m really heartened about, is the breaking down of barriers, and it’s great to have people like Rabbi Abadie with us because he’s also someone who can break down barriers, especially because he can appeal to the communities in their language, and that really does help an awful lot. Yes, our work here is all about breaking down barriers, but I’m really heartened to see that happen – on both sides.

I’m happy to see it happen in terms of American Jews and Israelis coming over and understanding a lot more about what the Arab culture is all about. There’s a lot for them to learn here, but at the same time, what we do have that’s interesting here is this idea that the hotels are very much interested in kind of like the Israeli tourism trade, and the American Jewish tourism trade, so that they should be kosher for the visitors. Now, we have the Ritz Carlton [hotel] that’s kosher, and we have the Regency Intercontinental [hotel] that’s kosher as well. So, whether or not they have enough experience in kosher, that’s another matter.

What they do do is they provide for the tourism a very good ability for, let’s say for the Bahrain tourism side to flourish here, and I’m seeing more and more Israelis coming into the Manama area, staying in the Regency [hotel]. Finally, we had a group of 50 who were related directly to the rabbi who set up the synagogue in 1935, and they came and stayed in the Regency [hotel]. And the only thing that they couldn’t get here was proper, kosher challah bread, but everything else they got. So, what they did was they actually brought the kosher challah bread with them from Israel, which was OK, and that was the only thing missing. But we love this idea of breaking down the barriers and I think the Muslim community are understanding that as well.

TML: Jewish education is definitely something, particularly in the UAE, that is going to be a problem if there isn’t a school born. Is there something in the works in that area?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Yes, we of course, education is practically the number one priority of any Jewish community. That’s the only way that we could have continuity of the Jewish community [and] a perpetuation of our traditions and the customs, so yes, that is in planning, and of course, it will probably be starting from nursery and then growing on a yearly basis as we have more children coming in, and more young families with children, so we will be able to fill in the classrooms. So, yes, definitely, education is very important, and the establishment of a school is of utmost priority for us.

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Sorry, can I just say [that] in terms of Bahrain, it also is an important thing for us too, because we really do want to have the families come over here and settle down here. And those that are the children of the generation that actually left Bahrain, they’ve been visiting Bahrain recently, and some of them are very keen to actually come back, and maybe make a new life of it here, so for them to bring their children, really needs to have the educational facilities, the proper educational facilities. Now, for us, we feel that our community needs to grow a lot bigger to be able to put the proper schooling in, so we still are at quite early stages, but we’re quite happy to bide our time.

TML: Is the government interested in enticements to get people to come from other countries to actually live in Bahrain so that you will build a Jewish community larger?

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Oh, absolutely, absolutely! They are very much encouraging [it]. I mean, it’s for any investments in Bahrain. Anyone who wants to invest in Bahrain will have the ability to get very good terms in terms of getting a residence and be able to sort of, even if they want to be here on the long term, if they are investors, well, they will have a much easier way in which to stay in Bahrain. But if they are actually on a contract, and I think the majority in the UAE are the same, they are on a contract, two-year contracts, or what have you, and if they aren’t renewing the contract, then their lives change. But, for the Bahrainis, if they’re coming to work here, it’s much better that they’re coming here in terms of investment. That way they can actually be here on a long-term basis.

TML: I want to pivot a little to the larger picture. Both of you have met very interesting people, I’m sure this year and even the year before. Government officials locally, and people from around the world that you probably never dreamed you would be standing with, and conversing with, and debating about how you can grow your communities. Each of you, and we’ll begin with Rabbi Abadie, what was that highlight, that amazing moment for you where it all crystallized and you said that this was an incredible meeting for me, or you said that you can’t believe that I just spent some time with this particular person?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, I have to say that that meeting was a few years ago with the crown prince, Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed as he welcomed me into his palace, and we had a conversation. We had a private conversation, and then we had a more public conversation, and that certainly crystallized the new vision of this country and this region, and I was able to see a bright future after that conversation. And that certainly is something that remains with me since that day, and I look forward to having those meetings again in the future.

TML: And for you, Ebrahim?

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: For me, it’s been the most amazing pleasure showing officials to the House of the Ten Commandments and explaining to them what we have inside the House of the Ten Commandments, and showing them the actual commandments in their language, and in Hebrew. For me, I’ve had a whole host of officials who have come but the one that stands out is the ambassador at the moment, the Bahraini ambassador in Tel Aviv, Ambassador Khaled Yousif Al-Jalahma. I love him dearly, and it’s wonderful, wonderful to meet him and to actually be able to explain to him all about the functioning of a synagogue. So, that for me was a highlight.

TML: Everything seems like it’s going gloriously, but we have to be realistic, there are sometimes problems that do arise. What has been the toughest dilemma that each of you have had? This is not a simple thing. It’s like starting with a newborn baby, and essentially this is, and you’re giving birth to new concepts.

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, it’s not a dilemma. It’s an interesting observation that many people, at least at the beginning, and some of them still, even in government offices, they do not differentiate between a Jew and an Israeli, so it is very interesting sometimes when I have a discussion with them about an issue, they always tell us why don’t you ask Israel what to do? Which ministry in Israel will be in charge of this issue? And I try to explain to them, “No, it has nothing to do with Israel! We are Jews. Not all Jews are Israelis, and not all Israelis are Jewish!” And so no, this is an independent issue of a community of faith that is growing, and we need to resolve it, so that has been an interesting situation that I have found myself in several times actually. Like I said, with society, or with members of the government, or with officers, but I think slowly, slowly, they’re learning that it’s different things.

The second issue is that we are seen more as a monolithic group, as a homogeneous group, and I think slowly, and I think it’s different from Bahrain because in Bahrain it is kind of more homogeneous than here in the UAE, now I think they are trying to understand [the issues at hand]. They are slowly, slowly learning that Jews have all kinds of colors, ethnicities, ideas, opinions, as you know.

TML: They do? {Laughs}

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Yes! And so, they have to basically deal with each one separately, and there’s no one solution fits all.

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: For us here in Bahrain, you’ve got to understand one thing, that since 1948 the children growing up in homes were always taught or learned through the media that Israel was the enemy and that the Palestinians were their friends. So, they all grew up that way thinking that Israel was always an enemy. Well, now with the Abraham Accords, we’re telling them, no, Israel is your friend! So, there’s a big change going on and slowly, slowly, the message is getting across, and people are understanding it, and for me, it’s proving to be not so much a challenge anymore, because wherever I go, I find that people are receptive about things. I mean, of course, you’re never going to satisfy everybody.

There are going to be the odd people who aren’t going to be comfortable with what they see, but in the whole, people are toeing the line and absolutely trying to find how they are going to benefit from this relationship, and that’s something they’re all looking at actually because people love to get involved in business, so they want to know how do I get in touch with Israeli companies. And that’s helping as well. That’s helping to break down barriers.

TML: Before I let you both go, Passover isn’t so far off. I mean, the holiday of Purim is before, but what are the preparations in light of COVID?

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Well, fortunately, I think that COVID numbers are decreasing significantly. Restrictions on that are also decreasing, and so we hope that by Passover there will be very fewer remnant restrictions of COVID, so of course, we are at least going to provide to our group what matzah, what haroset, what whatever service they need for Passover, whether it be instruction of a seder which we did last year via video, so we’re going to do that.

Second, there is in Dubai, and I’m not sure if in Bahrain there is, probably there is, but Ebrahim would know better, we have several hotels booked already with groups coming from all over the world to have a Passover program, a Pesach program here in the Emirates. There is going to be also [a Passover program] in Abu Dhabi.

Last year, there were three programs. There were over eleven scheduled, but because of COVID, it was reduced to three. This year, I understand that number has doubled, if not more, and so yes, we’re looking forward to those celebrations.

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Well, here in Bahrain we have plenty of interest from the hotels in having that Passover tourism, and they are preparing for it as well. Whether they get it on time for this Passover, I don’t really know, but of course, definitely, Purim and Passover are our time, when we historically have been making our own Passover bread, our own matzahs at home.

Whether [or not] we’re going to do that now because it’s a lot easier bringing in the matzahs now, and whatever kosher requirements we have, it’s going to be very easy for us to get it, and it’s the same for all the Jewish communities around the Gulf. They will all have access to Jewish food. So, that’s a great sign.

And Purim, of course, is a great festival for us in the synagogue. We have a great time during Purim, and we do that once every year, so yes, we will be celebrating.

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Actually, there is one more thing that I did not mention. The AGJC is sponsoring a baking of matzah in every community that wants to participate, so we’re going to have them come to the UAE. They are going to be going to Bahrain. And they’re going to be going to some of the other countries in the region to bake matzah for the local Jews, and then that way they can have their own baked matzah for this holiday, and not just the ones that we’re going to send them.

TML: Well, thank you both for sharing Jewish life in the Middle East, in the UAE and Bahrain. It gives us a little feeling of what’s happening in the countries beyond. I wish you a lot of success into your next year of the AGJC communities, and I hope to be with you soon!

Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo: Thank you, Felice!

Rabbi Elie Abadie: Thank you very much, Felice! Thank you!

—

Interview with AGJC board member Rafael Schwartz, Kuwait

TML: How long have you been in Kuwait?

Rafael Schwartz: I’ve been here a few years, working in engineering.

TML: I know I spoke to you briefly maybe two years ago. How many other Jews that are living in Kuwait have come out that you’ve met?

Rafael Schwartz: The number of Jews that you are talking about I can count on one hand. I can think of four Jews, really.

TML: Do you get together at all?

Rafael Schwartz: No, not really. When I first arrived here, the US army base had some kosher food and Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, and Pesach [Passover], they have these things going on for the soldiers, the Jewish soldiers, so they have a rabbi come in. So, I went to that, and this was a few years ago, and there I met a few people who live in Kuwait City. I mean, most of them are in the army base, but I met a couple of people who live in Kuwait City, so there are those two people I met, and then, in addition to that I met other people through the AGJC, one person in particular, through the AGJC. Thanks to the AGJC, I was able to connect up with someone else, so I didn’t even realize it. That was one of the real benefits of the AGJC.

TML: Right. How else has the AGJC helped you?

Rafael Schwartz: That’s the main way. And the other way was, first of all, when it came to Pesach, they facilitated stuff, kosher for Pesach [as well as] food in the army bases – things like that really. Those are the two main ways.

TML: Are you a traditional Jew? You know, because it’s hard to be Jewish living in Kuwait.

Rafael Schwartz: Yeah, I’m sort of Orthodox as much as I can [be]. I keep Shabbat. I try and keep kosher, although there’s no kosher meat or chicken. You can get some stuff from the army, but I’m vegetarian. I just keep vegetarian here, so that I don’t eat nonkosher. I don’t eat non-kosher meat, so I’m vegetarian here. And I keep Shabbat. So, you could do all of that and you could be anywhere in the world, but really things are a lot limited because you are missing out on the communities.

TML: Of course! So, the job was important enough for you to want to go. Why do you think that there haven’t been any other Jews that have come? Have you seen Jews come for business? I mean, is there anything that has changed in the last year?

Rafael Schwartz: I came here thinking that it would be easy to just get on a plane and go to Dubai a couple of times a month, and that was my intention, but it really didn’t happen, because of COVID. That was the main thing. It’s just been difficult. It hasn’t been easy, you know?

TML: No, it can’t be.

Rafael Schwartz: So, there are limited things. From time to time, maybe twice a year, there’s somebody who comes to Kuwait and basically, they give them my [phone] number and they get in touch with me and say, “Hey, I hear that you’re a Jewish person in Kuwait.” They might have a few questions here and there. Maybe it’s happened once or twice in the time I’ve been here, but I can’t remember.

TML: Does anybody know that you are Jewish living in Kuwait?

Rafael Schwartz: No. The other Jews here also keep a very low profile. They don’t tell anyone. It’s a private thing, really.

TML: Do you think it is going to change?

Rafael Schwartz: Well, the Jew I met through the AGJC also said to me that over the years they’ve met, and that person has been here for a number of years, and over the years they’ve met other Jewish people at the rounds. They’ve been here for quite a long time, but they met other Jewish people around, mainly, well all of them expats [and] people who come here for work, and those families that they’ve met over the last 20 to 30 years, they’ve left. So, is it going to change? I think that if one day there is a peace accord made between Israel and the State of Kuwait, like [was done] with the other countries of Bahrain and UAE, then yes, you might start seeing Jews coming here. Well, maybe, because it depends on the economy. Over the years…

Well, first you had [it] that the oil industry went down, and then the COVID came through, so any Jews that were here, a lot of them, well they were all expatriates, and they left.

TML: Right.

Rafael Schwartz: So, it depends on that as well. There are two things: the economy and also the relationship with Israel, or the normalization, I should say.

TML: In your job, do you know any of the government officials?

Rafael Schwartz: What exactly do you mean by government officials?

TML: Are you in contact with government officials in Kuwait in any way? Or, you’re just working in the business sector only?

Rafael Schwartz: Yeah, I’m in the business sector. I don’t really know anyone specifically in the government who is doing a politician type of thing. No, I don’t.

TML: Is there any hope that you have? I mean, looking at the AGJC, and what you would rather see happening in the coming year. And let’s say COVID eases, what are your hopes?

Rafael Schwartz: Well, I think that one of the ways to connect with other Jews, one of them is with the AGJC, and the other [way] is that there may well be other Jews who you don’t know exist who are not observant at all really, and one way of connecting with them is through intermediary routes. Maybe through a church or someone who is probably another expatriate who comes in contact with other people. Maybe the US Embassy. That’s where you are likely to get other Jews and to meet with other Jews.

TML: Are you looking to meet other Jews there? Would you be happy to do that?

Rafael Schwartz: Yeah, I would be happy to do that! That would be interesting. If you look on Google, you’ll see that there is a Jewish cemetery [in Kuwait], but not much is known about it. And there used to be a [Jewish] community here 100 years ago, but that doesn’t exist anymore.

TML: Correct. I thought it was in the 1800s.

Rafael Schwartz: I read that they were here until the 1930s, 1920s, I’m not sure, but they were connected to the Iraqi Jewish community. So, really the only way I see this progressing is [through] baby steps, slowly but surely. You ask some people. Even though this isn’t the friendliest country compared to others in the region, there are people who are here – Muslims – who are very pro-tolerance and very pro-engaging with religious [tolerance]. I’ve met some people.

TML: And they know you’re Jewish?

Rafael Schwartz: Yes, they do. There are not many.

TML: Jewish is one thing. The topic of Israel is another. Do you ever discuss Israel at all?

Rafael Schwartz: It’s come up in conversations I’ve had with Kuwaitis doing business, and I’ve never heard the anti-Israel ruse. I’ve had quite positive [views]. With Kuwait families, most people keep to themselves, culturally speaking. Most people tend to keep to themselves in the sense of, if you meet a Kuwait family that is quite traditional, they’ll be friendly. They are very friendly, and they are very hospitable and they’re very generous. I’ve had a lot of positive experiences in that respect.

TML: So, you said earlier that it’s not the friendliest country. You’re saying there are individual people that are really friendly, but the country at large isn’t?

Rafael Schwartz: Well, when I say not friendly, not friendly compared to the other countries in terms of … I’m talking about, generically speaking, in terms of the government, in terms of the Jewish or Israeli situation. I’m just talking purely about it. I mean, it’s well known, right?

TML: Got it. Yeah, of course!

Rafael Schwartz: But in terms of the immediate actual people, the families, I’d say they are quite friendly, but sort of like hospitable in some respects. I’ve had a positive experience. Put it that way.

TML: I was asking about the country, the people that you were opening up to in discussing Israel with. That kind of thing.

Rafael Schwartz: So, Israel, yeah. Your average person who I don’t know, who you get to talking about things, and you talk about business, and you talk about trade, and they mention Israel. I’ve spoken to businesspeople who have spoken about Israel, and they haven’t said anything bad or anti-Israel at all. They’ve just mentioned that there’s a country in the scheme of the business sense, but not in the political sense. So, I haven’t heard so far, any anti-Israel rhetoric apart from the newspapers and the media. I haven’t really heard anything.

TML: How long can you see yourself staying there knowing there is limited community access?

Rafael Schwartz: Yeah, this is not something indefinite for sure.

TML: Right, so you look at it as temporary.

Rafael Schwartz: Correct, yeah!

TML: Right. OK, [Do you have any] advice for the person looking to come and do business, and thinking hey, Kuwait is not easy [and] I’m an observant Jew in some form?

Rafael Schwartz: Yeah, someone who looks to come and live here as an observant Jew will find it very difficult, obviously. I think it’s possible. It depends on whether [they are] single or whether they are married with kids, and how old are the kids and so on and so forth, but it’s definitely possible because you could keep Shabbat. We’re on the Arabian Sea, so there’s a [natural] mikve [ritual bath]. You can bake challah and have grape juice for kiddush. You can do everything.

Kosher meat is the only challenge, so if you’re willing to be vegetarian, then you can keep 100% kosher as well, just like the Chabad’s decades ago. They would find a place and would be able to lead an Orthodox life. Here as well, you can, just that you won’t have the community that has a minyan if that’s what you need. If you need it for a yahrzeit or something. But if you need a brit milah [circumcision], then a mohel could come here. There is no reason why not. But anyone who is religious who lives would be going quite often to Dubai or Bahrain or something [of that sort]. But for sure, for someone who is observant who wants to come here for business temporarily, yeah, absolutely! There’s no reason why not.

TML: Have we missed anything? Is there anything interesting that happened this year that you wanted to share relative to your life?

Rafael Schwartz: Just really meeting someone through the AGJC was a real highlight to see where they live, and [it was] another Jewish family. That was a highlight. Also, it was the first time in my life that I actually made a sukkah. I’ve never done that before. I had to wait until I got to Kuwait and I could make it.

TML: Explain that. What do you mean?

Rafael Schwartz: Just having the space, because when you live in a flat, it’s difficult.

TML: But you built it in your home?

Rafael Schwartz: Yeah! There’s a terrace. I was able to. I had plenty of space. I was able to.

TML: What did the neighbor’s think?

Rafael Schwartz: No one knew or understood anything! No one. I mean it wasn’t very [prominent]. It’s a rooftop terrace. No one could see anything really, but it was there to highlight [my desire to build it]. And I checked with a rabbi. Can I do this? Where do I put that? And what are the dimensions? So, it was good for that. It was amazing. The whole place is.

TML: Interesting. Very interesting. Well, that’s a nice anecdote. I appreciate that. Well, thank you for sharing.

Rafael Schwartz: Well also, I mean also it’s not a highlight, but it’s the first time I’ve done it, but making grape juice. I’ve never done it before, so that was the first time.

TML: How did you do it?

Rafael Schwartz: Well, you get grapes, and the best way to do it is to manually open them up and get rid of the pips. I realized that that is the best way, and then you can go ahead and put it in the blender and then put it on one of those sieves so that the juice comes out and leaves everything else [behind], but yeah, it can be done. Here I wasn’t able to find very easily kosher grape juice. I mean, there’s plenty of juices in the supermarkets – grape juice and all sorts – and they’re imported, a lot of them from America, right?

TML: Yes.

Rafael Schwartz: But those ones that are imported, Welch’s is one of the makes.

TML: I know it.

Rafael Schwartz: In America, a lot of them have a hechsher [kosher certification] on them, but the ones right here in Kuwait don’t have a hechsher [on them], so I don’t know if it’s kosher or not.

TML: That’s another story. Well, thank you! Thank you! Nice to talk to you.

Rafael Schwartz: Thank you. Yeah. I can’t see things getting better in terms of Judaism. For things to get better, I don’t think that the government is anti-Jewish, I just think that we need more Jewish people here to be able to meet on a regular basis. That would make a difference. Without that, it is very limited really in terms of [things], but if there are five or ten people around that can meet, then things would start to happen.

TML: That’s why I asked if you met with government officials.

Rafael Schwartz: You mean Kuwaiti government officials.

TML: Yes! I mean, to start to change the bar to have them know that you are [there].

Rafael Schwartz: That would be good. That would be a good thing. It has its risks. I mean, you have to be careful. If you want to hide your identity, then you have to understand the risk involved, and then I don’t know, slowly get a network of people who are not anti-Jewish, or anti-Israel specifically, and if they know of government officials that are also not that, then it would be a starting point, but otherwise, it’s a risk. The outcome of that could be…

TML: Interesting! Has the government of Israel been in touch with you in any way, from the Israeli side?

Rafael Schwartz: No! I don’t think they know I exist.

TML: Don’t be so sure! Well, now they’ll know for sure.

Rafael Schwartz: Well, that’s good. It’s good to have some help. I don’t know where we’re going with that, but hopefully, things will change in the future. It’s not easy. It’s not easy to start this.

TML: Good luck!

Rafael Schwartz: Thank you very much!