Chaim Peri’s Son to Gov’t: Prioritize Hostage Release

The government should focus on getting the hostages back, “not banging the war drums, not planning the infantry ground invasion … killing a bunch of kids from both sides … it doesn’t make any sense”

Chaim Peri, a film lecturer and peace activist, was abducted from his home in Kibbutz Nir Oz, near Israel’s border with the Gaza Strip. The father of five and grandfather of 13 attempted to fend off the terrorists, who ultimately abducted him and took him into Gaza. Meanwhile, his wife, Osnat, remained hidden in the darkness of their shelter until Israeli security forces rescued her.

Lior Peri, Chaim’s son, told The Media Line that his uncle Danny Darlington and Darlington’s friend Carolin Bohl were visiting the kibbutz on the day they were both murdered.

Following the recent release of hostage Yocheved Lifshitz, Lior received confirmation of his father’s well-being when Lifshitz informed him that she had seen Chaim, who appeared to be in reasonably good health.

For much of his life, Chaim Peri volunteered with the Israeli organization Road to Recovery, which transports ill Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip to Israeli medical facilities for treatment.

In an interview with The Media Line’s Felice Friedson, Lior Peri provided a firsthand account of the tragic events of that day.

TML: On October 7, Chaim Peri was abducted. And along with Chaim, members of your family, a lot of them, were killed. Lior, you are joining me from Tel Aviv, and I really appreciate your taking the time with The Media Line today to talk about what happened that day and what you know about the whereabouts of your father. Thanks for being here.

Lior Peri: As you said, Saturday morning October 7 my father and his wife went into the safe room at 6:30 in the morning, something like that. There also was a bombing alarm, which is also unfortunately quite common there. They are used to it. They have 10 seconds. They have to go to the safe room, wait there for a few minutes, and go out.

This time, they started getting text messages in the community groups telling them that there might be an infiltration and that they should stay inside.

TML: Now, which kibbutz was this?

Lior Peri: We are talking about Kibbutz Nir Oz.

TML: One of the hardest hit.

Lior Peri: By percentage, it’s the worst one [hit], because, out of 330 people in the community, quite a small community, more than 100 [were killed or abducted]. We’re talking more than about a third of the kibbutz that was either killed or abducted or went missing.

Of all of the people from my family, we have our parents there; my father and his wife. We started texting them what was going on, and then it was quiet for a few hours and then his wife texted us [that] Chaim was taken, and only afterward we understood the story that people started hearing gunshots and a grenade, and everything.

And then somebody tried to break into the safe room, and my father tried to push him back. But he knew that they would come a second time. And he’s not strong enough. He’s 79 years old. He’s very strong. He’s a really well-built, really good guy, but he can’t fight a fit terrorist who comes to [kill him].

So, he hid his wife behind [him]. He told her to hide behind some sofa or something in the safe room. It was dark. There was no electricity because the electricity went out. And when they came back a second time, he went out willingly. And by doing so, he saved her, because they thought that he was alone there. And he went out, and then she heard them telling him don’t resist, we aren’t going to do anything to hurt you. And they took him away.

The safe room door remained open, and she was inside. She heard them coming in another time trashing the house and looking [around] and breaking everything. And she hid there trying to turn off her cellphone for nothing to happen. And trying not to breathe. As she said, “I tried not to breathe.”

And she’s not a young woman, she’s 71 years old. And she hid there for four and a half hours, almost five hours until the police came and rescued her. That’s our luck. This is our small miracle, that at least she survived.

On the same kibbutz, on the same day, in the same attack, my brother from my mother’s side who is a British citizen who lives in Berlin now, he came to Israel with a German friend he had, named Carolin Bohl. My brother is Danny Darlington; [he] is a British civilian. He came to visit us as a tourist, and he was supposed to come back to my place in Tel Aviv on the Friday [beforehand]. And he managed to find a ride because they wanted to stay one more day. Because they like the place, and they really enjoyed it. So, he wanted to stay one more day, and then [said], “You’ll come Saturday, and you’ll drop me at the airport on Saturday evening and that’s it.”

I hadn’t seen him on this visit, because when he [did come], he came to my house, and I was abroad. And he was with my wife and my girls and they had a lot of fun. And they really loved him coming to my house because he’s really young. He’s 34 years old. He’s the young and cool uncle. He’s the British guy from Berlin and they really [love] him.

On Saturday morning they texted me that there is a huge mess here on the kibbutz and that’s it. That is the last we heard of him and her, his friend, Carolin.

TML: And what happened to them?

Lior Peri: They got shot or killed in some way. I didn’t bother to find out how they got killed. Like many others in this kibbutz on this day, they got murdered.

TML: I’m very sorry, very, very sorry for your loss. Did you hear from your parents at all when they were in the shelter?

Lior Peri: When they were in [the shelter], there was a time when Osnat, my dad’s wife, when she shut down the phone because she didn’t want anything [to be heard]. And [she] only opened it for a second and texted one of the kids [that] Chaim has been taken. And that [was] it.

We immediately called the police. We called everyone we knew. We were helpless. We were sitting here in the center of Israel and we were trying to assist a horrible terror attack happening in the South and we were so sure that the army would come any second. The army is there all of the time. We were convinced that they would come.

Actually, the first people who arrived at this kibbutz were police forces. When the security forces came to the police, there were no terrorists inside of the kibbutz anymore. They finished the job and went, not like there was a fight with them.

In other places, maybe in northern places, there were fights with them. The army came in and had to fight with them. But in Nir Oz, they were just scanning the kibbutz to see that there was no one there. We still don’t understand this. They’ve been neglected. They’ve been deserted. We don’t have any other explanation for it.

TML: Has anyone been in touch with you about the whereabouts of your father?

Lior Peri: No. Up until the release of Yocheved Lifshitz and Nurit Cooper we had no idea if he is alive or where he is. And after she was released, she talked to the family and her family gave us a message from her that he was alive.

TML: That must make you feel very good.

Lior Peri: That makes me feel very good. And I was afraid to publish it. Maybe it will hurt some chances, but now I am sure that I must publish it because I have to tell the Israeli government [that] you now have a responsibility on you, now that you know that he is alive and well. Even his friends. They are there, and they are alive and well.

And now, this is your responsibility not to do a double mistake neglecting him for once, allowing terrorists to walk freely inside of the kibbutz. You probably have seen the video of them walking, taking their time, thinking [about] who we’re going to kill next. What house we are going to burn? What are we going to loot?

It was horrible for me to see. I’ve lived there all my life until I was 20 or 21 in this kibbutz, and it felt safe. It’s a house. When you’re a kid in the kibbutz, everywhere you go is your house, so everywhere I go is safe. You know all the people. There are no strangers.

You know all of the places. You know all of the houses. It’s your house. It’s your place of security. And for me to see those images of a terrorist walking inside of a kibbutz freely, and they are walking without any haste. They are just walking thinking what else can we do. It’s horrible! The sense of betrayal is horrible.

And now, my government is not doing enough to release them; to fix what they’ve done. They’re not doing enough, and I’m afraid that they’re actually doing damage, OK? Not helping and doing nothing is what this government is known for. It’s OK with me, but inflicting damage now on the chances of releasing the hostages, that’s too much. It will lead us to explode. It will lead us to I don’t know what. I cannot find the words to describe the anger.

TML: Lior, has any government official approached you at all?

Lior Peri: Just the formality to announce that he’s been abducted. I think that there have been three occasions so far when the government [contacted me]. The first [occasion] was six days after the event. A guy called Gal Hirsch, who was appointed by the government to be in charge of the hostage situation, so he came to a meeting, and he gave us some kind of an election speech or something.

He shouted that it’s a long run. It’s not a sprint. It will take time. And we’re thinking that there are babies and old people. Why are you telling us that this will take a long time? And then he countered that we have to save the country and win the war and release the hostages.

And we thought, that’s your only job. You’re not the chief of staff. You’re not anything. This is purely your job. So, that was the first time we met him. The second time we heard him shouting at European press, because they supported the Oslo Agreements, or something [like that]. I don’t know. That is the second time that we heard about him.

The third time [around], his office said that Yocheved Lifshitz, the amazing, amazing old woman that was released, he said that her testimony is damaging Israel. And then the foreign minister told the Israeli captive family’s delegation who went to Washington to talk to congressmen, he told them don’t talk to the UN [secretary general] because he said things that I did not like to hear.

And now I understand that we aren’t [just] in bad hands; we are in the worst hands possible. And now I feel completely hopeless because I now know that my government at least from what they are saying … and not from what I know within, from what they are saying to the media I understand that they are the weakest link. They will be the ones who will probably inflict the most damage on the chances of my father to be free.

TML: What do you think should have been done?

Lior Peri: Ever since those two old ladies went out, as I see it, this is how Hamas called for a communication channel. We have a communication channel. We gave you two elderly people for humanitarian reasons. Now, let’s talk and they will name their price. And whatever price it is, we’ll say great, let’s do it.

Well, now we are not in a situation to negotiate, because we’ve done … horrible, horrible work. We’ve betrayed our people. We’ve neglected them, and now we will do anything to bring them back. So, we are not in such a good place to negotiate, but we’ll talk. Tell us what you want. Tell us what we need.

You want us to free all of the kids in return for all of the kids you took. All of the women you have in return for… Whatever you want, whatever is needed, we’ll do it. That’s the only thing the Israeli government should have done after this huge mess-up. After this huge, awful situation, that’s the only thing we should have done.

And, of course, I’m relying on them to do the opposite.

TML: You know, Lior, you brought up children. How many children were abducted right now from the kibbutz you grew up in?

Lior Peri: I’m sorry that I don’t know the exact numbers, but anything above one is horrible. And we’re talking about two-digit numbers. I don’t know if it’s 16 or 20 or something [like that]. I don’t know have many children beneath the age of 16. Maybe I don’t think about it, because I have kids of my own and I cannot imagine. I cannot.

TML: Many kids were murdered as well. Many children were killed.

Lior Peri: Yeah, I mean, since you have seen the horrors. Everybody saw the horrors, OK? So, the only thing that we must do is help the ones that we can help. It’s so clear. I don’t understand how it’s [not] the only thing.

And it’s not only because of my old father being held in captivity, OK? It’s the only logical thing that we can do. We have seen the damage.

TML: Have you gone back to the home where you grew up?

Lior Peri: No. First of all, it’s impossible because it’s still closed [as a closed military zone]. And second, I’ve seen some pictures and I’ve seen some TV reports, and I don’t want to go there. I really, really don’t want to go there. It’s not going to help me. It’s not going to do anything good. It’s like looking at your burnt house. What good will it do you?

I have beautiful memories from this kibbutz, and beautiful present memories from nowadays as my girls go to visit their grandparents so no good will come out of me [going there]. The only thing I need to do now is reminding my government that the only job it has [to do], the only thing, not banging the war drums, not planning the infantry ground invasion, with all of this they got mixed up. They forgot one thing. To fix the ungood they have done. They first need to fix it, then they can do whatever they like.

TML: Do you think that they should go after Hamas after what Hamas has done? Do you feel this is correct?

Lior Peri: They can try and go after whoever they like, like they did in the last 20 years. What good did it do? Where did it get us? I mean, Israel went out of the Gaza Strip so they can become an independent country, but of course it never did, because Israel helped all of its political preferences there. Maybe we should give this one this. Maybe we should help this one. I don’t know. They were doing wrong for 20 years, and for 20 years it was an ongoing situation.

And bombings. And killing a bunch of kids from both sides; soldiers, civilians repeatedly. I lost count. I don’t know how many times Israel has done it in the past 20 years, but it doesn’t make any sense. They have been trying to achieve a different solution by doing the same action. It is the definition of insanity, right? It’s not my definition. I think it’s someone else who said it. I don’t remember [who].

TML: Lior, the world is looking at what happened, and many people are just appalled at the way that Hamas came in.

Lior Peri: Yeah, they are barbaric; horrible things that they have done. It cannot be justified, of course. It is inhumane the horrors I’m seeing. I was going through social media, and in the worst places just to see the pictures of my father. I really dived into those horrible places and the pictures I’ve seen are horrible, but it’s not the point.

We’re not trying to justify our enemies’ acts, because this is what the enemy does. It doesn’t matter how brutal he is. It doesn’t matter how barbaric he is. We now have one goal, and by fueling this and showing how much Hamas is barbaric, I think everyone already understood, OK? Including the most pro-Hamas people, and I’m not saying pro-Palestine, pro-Hamas people. I’m sure they understand the horrors. They know the horrors. The pictures were shown all over the world.

And it has nothing to do with the situation we are in, because we need to fix what is fixable. I cannot undo [things]. My brother will not return, because of their horrific and barbaric acts. My brother won’t return. My father might/will, so let’s work this way. Revenge is a horrible feeling, and it leads nowhere but to more death.

And I have to ask myself, is this what I want? I’ve seen the barbaric acts and everything, but do I want more death at all? And, the human, the normal person, the humane person will tell you no. We don’t want any deaths. Let’s see how we stop it.

We didn’t manage to stop it in the last 20 years. Let’s try something else. Let’s go through it in a different approach. I don’t know how. I’m not sure. There are people who are getting paid a lot of money to think only about this, and they have done a horrible job so far, so of course it must be changed. But if it won’t [be changed], at least offer some productive way of solving it.

TML: Lior, please take a minute and speak about your father. Tell us a little bit about him.

Lior Peri: My father is 79 years old. He has been living in this kibbutz, Kibbutz Nir Oz almost all of his life since he was 20 [years old]. So, basically, it’s a farming community. He was kind of a farmer. He was also the head of the community for a few years, but most of all, I think he’s an artist. He was enthusiastic about film; cinema, and he was teaching it. And he made a lot of short films in the kibbutz. That was his biggest passion, I think.

He became a teacher in high school for this as well. And he established an art gallery [in] the middle of the field in an old, deserted house where he hosted artists from all over Israel to show their art in this amazing, beautiful place in front of the Gaza Strip. Putting an art gallery in front of the Gaza Strip and not a tank.

And besides that, he was a really enthusiastic peace activist. After finishing his duty as a soldier like every other Israeli, and he had unfortunate luck to be in all of the big wars of Israel, so when this was over, he became a peace activist. He said, I’ve seen the war and never again! It should never be the way.

And he was doing demonstrations and arguing with people and helping political campaigns that served their purpose. And he always was a peace activist. He always believed in peace. No matter what.

When he grew a bit older and he got a little bit tired of the demonstrations, he volunteered for this amazing organization called Road to Recovery. And Road to Recovery is an Israeli organization that is driving patients and mostly kids from the Gaza Strip to hospitals in Israel for medical care. It was him and another big group of retired people who are, ironically, in those abducted group. They were a part of Road to Recovery driving people, sick people, and kids to hospitals in Israel.

A lot of people want to see a picture of it or to send documentation. It’s hard for me to explain, although it’s highly important, it’s [still] a volunteering job. There was no documentation for the simple reason that a lot of people on both sides didn’t want it to be known, because people are being held by Israel[is] might be considered cooperating with Israel, so it might endanger them inside the Gaza Strip if it’s known outside.

If it’s known in Israel, then people might look for them in the hospital and start shouting why are you treating these [people], so they kept it in a low profile. But they still are working. They still are doing this holy work until today. This is what they do, and this is what my father did.

TML: Despite the horrific events that have unfolded, there are still Israelis and Gazans that are communicating [with each other]?

Lior Peri: Actually, yes, because we understand that Gaza is not Hamas and Hamas is not Gaza. They are combined in an unsolvable bond, but we know that everywhere there are humans, there are peaceful humans. And we know how difficult it is for people in Gaza who are peace activists and live in peace, we know how hard it is for them to stay this way.

I understand the rage and the hate in the Gaza Strip. We will need three generations, at least, to dissolve it. To get rid of it. And I understand, unfortunately, where the hate is coming from. I will never justify any [terrorist] action. Never. But I can understand the hate.

So yes, there will always be people believing in peace, and eventually, this will be the solution because we can look at history and see where war brought us and where peace brought us. It’s very, very easy. War will never be the solution. War always leads to peace.

TML: Were there Gazan workers that are still working on the kibbutz?

Lior Peri: I am not sure, because I am not an active part of the community now. I live in Tel Aviv, but I know that there were before October 7. I don’t know the numbers if it’s 20,000 workers coming in from Gaza on a daily basis. They rely on us to give them work. We rely on them to work for us.

Unfortunately, the economy is the biggest engine. It is the biggest push that we have so the most important thing is that people can go to work so that they can bring money [to their families], and it happens all of the time. And now it’s not happening and you can only imagine the escalation of the crisis there as well as on our side. We are going to hit this financial crisis very soon.

TML: Is there any possibility that any of the workers were involved in giving information to Hamas?

Lior Peri: I don’t know. I don’t know, but Hamas won, OK? I don’t know, but the first act, Hamas won. They orchestrated an attack. Maybe they used intelligence of their own. I don’t know, but we are the ones with the cameras and the balloons and everything. We are the strong side, and they won it. I don’t know how. They are the winners here.

I believe that they achieved their intelligence in some way. Some people are talking about how they had maps and everything, but this is war. You won’t find anything pleasant and nice in war, and in war you really play dirty so I can believe anything.

TML: You mentioned that you have children. How do you explain this to them about your brother and where your father is now?

Lior Peri: Yeah, that was one of the most difficult things to do, because one of my girls asked me why did they kill Uncle Danny? He’s not even an Israeli. Why did they kill him? She was angry and confused. She understood that some bad people came to the kibbutz to shoot and kill and massacre an entire community, but she said, “Danny wasn’t a part of this community. Why did they do it?”

It was very hard to explain to her that these are the worst people. They are almost like animals, and they shoot without aiming. They don’t care who they shoot. They [just] shoot. They are savages. They don’t care. They will just kill anyone in their way.

And then I’m telling her, “And grandfather is being held by them, but they are taking good care of him.” And this is the duality that I must show her, and I don’t know how a child’s mind can receive it, but hopefully the trust I have in seeing my father alive and well again, is hopefully … going toward my daughter as well.

TML: How old is she?

Lior Peri: Well, I have two daughters. [One] is 10 years old. And I have a 13 [year-old daughter].

TML: Well, wishing you just prayers and safety for your father and only good [things] ahead. It’s a very tough time for everyone in Israel and for the world watching. And I thank you for taking the time, Lior, to talk about the plight of your dad and what happened to your brother and his friend and your community that you grew up in.

Lior Peri: Thank you very much.

TML: You’re very welcome.