Horrors of Oct. 7 Drive Conference of Presidents’ Malcolm Hoenlein To Compare Jewish Affairs Today to Holocaust Era

Malcolm Hoenlein discusses the critical need for unity in the Jewish community and strong support for Israel amid rising antisemitism and the post-Oct. 7 scenario

Since its founding nearly 70 years ago, the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations has represented a consensus voice for the US Jewish community. Never has consensus among the community felt more vital than now, as Israel continues its war against Hamas following the unprecedented Oct. 7 attack and as US Jews face a dramatic rise in antisemitism.

Malcolm Hoenlein, now the conference’s vice chairman emeritus, served as its executive vice chairman for over 30 years, starting in June 1986. He is the founding executive director of both the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater New York and the Greater New York Conference on Soviet Jewry and was a key organizer of the March for Israel, which brought hundreds of thousands of Jews to Washington last November. He is an expert in international relations, with a focus on Israel, the Middle East, and Soviet Jewry.

The Media Line’s Felice Friedson spoke with Malcolm Hoenlein about the postwar future in Gaza, what Arab leaders are saying about Hamas behind closed doors, and why he has changed his mind about comparing current Jewish affairs to the Holocaust.

TML: Malcolm, did you ever in your dreams think that you’d be standing in Israel after Oct. 7, having witnessed what happened on Oct. 7, and living through what many are calling a second Holocaust?

Malcolm Hoenlein: I could not have imagined it. Having experienced it personally and witnessing it the day after, I tell you the truth, it’s really still hard for me to grasp the full consequence and impact. But my first impression was that I now understood what my grandparents saw in 1943 when they were deported. As you know, I, for many years, argued against comparisons to the Shoah [Holocaust in Hebrew] because it is different today, having a State of Israel and an IDF [Israel Defense Forces] and an IAF [Israeli Air Force].

But I don’t think anymore that way. I think comparing it to 1935, that the warning signs for Jews abroad, that the lessons of Oct. 7 are very relevant to what we learned. And if “never again” is not to be a hollow slogan at rallies but a meaningful pledge, it’s a time when it has to be renewed now.

TML: The United States government has been supportive and yet also, at this very moment, not so supportive. As the Conference of Presidents looks at what’s happening with President Biden, what’s the reaction among those who belong to the conference?

Malcolm Hoenlein: Well, obviously, there are vast differences within the conference, but there is a unity that emerged just as it did here. And since Oct. 7, I think people have been working together. It was manifest in the 300,000 people who came to Washington. It was manifest in the series of activities that have been taking place on a nonstop basis in support of the hostages and their return.

There is disappointment about some of the recent statements and actions on the part of the administration. Appreciation for the arms and the support that they gave them at the United Nations and ICJ [International Court of Justice] and many other places. And, by and large, the US-Israel relationship remains strong. The members of Congress, the American people, and all the polls still show overwhelming support.

I believe President Biden has a long history with Israel, support for Israel. But the idea of pushing now for a two-state solution is misguided. It’s misguided for America. It’s misguided for the region. The first victims of any kind of victorious exit for Hamas, that they can claim. It doesn’t have to be reality, they’re talking about unrealities and presenting them as fact today. Just think what they will do if they’re able to claim movement towards a Palestinian state or additional movement or concessions from Israel. The first victims will be Jordan and Egypt, then the UAE. Then Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. And everyone will pay a price for it. Morocco. Across the region, all those who are fighting against Islamist terrorism, Sunni or Shiite, will pay a price, because this is a time when there has to be a real answer, once and for all, that the Hamas guys can’t have a parade the next day, fire a few missiles, and their leadership say, “We survived, we overcame,” and that will be the mantra that you will hear throughout the region. Every Arab leader I speak to says, “Decimate them, decimate them. Don’t listen to what we say. Just take care of it because it will hurt all of us, everyone.”

If you care about the Abraham Accords moving forward, if you care about stability in the region, if you care about countering Iran’s domination and desire for dominance in the region, then you have to make sure to support actions by the government of Israel and the military of Israel, taking care of humanitarian concerns, which they have done consistently, but to enable them, the day after, to say, “We have taken down the Hamas infrastructure. We have eliminated their leadership. And maybe we can open a new page for the people of Gaza.

TML: You have escorted many groups to Saudi Arabia and to other parts of the Middle East. Why aren’t you hearing louder voices saying what you just said? They might say it in closed doors, but they’re not saying it publicly.

Malcolm Hoenlein: Because there is this concern about, quote, “the Arab street,” which many of them have dismissed. I can tell you that I don’t know an Arab leader who doesn’t express complete disgust with the PA [Palestinian Authority], calling it autocracy[1] , saying they’ve stolen all the billions of dollars that we have given, saying that if you gave our people the list of the most important challenges they feel, said, the Palestinians wouldn’t be on it, because they’re tired of all the attitude and then, as soon as the occasion arises, they turn against the very countries that host them or help them.

So it isn’t because they want to see the Hamas regime survive, it isn’t because they want to see a Palestinian state, because they know it will destabilize the whole region, including them. But they are concerned when they don’t see the firm stance against Iran and against the influences of their proxy actions. When they didn’t see us taking down the Houthis when they were attacking, or the Iranians when they were attacking our shipping before the massive response of the last few months. When they don’t feel that America’s commitment is there.

That’s why the presence of the aircraft carriers was such an important statement by the United States, because it’s how they perceive the commitment to the United States. In the Middle East, people act on perception of reality, not necessarily reality. And we have a situation today where Iran is trying to create an alternative reality. They’re moving ahead with their nuclear program. We’re not stopping them. They’re producing more oil, a billion dollars of income every eight, nine days. We should bomb their oil fields. We should eliminate it, not hurt the people of Iran who want to overthrow the regime.

We hear from the dissidents that 80, 90% of the people of Iran want this regime gone. But we’re not helping them. The West isn’t helping them to accomplish it. We don’t have to go in with guns, we don’t have to go in with tanks. Just support them. They will do the job. The problem is that we have undermined them consistently. Iran can be brought down. Now it’s up to the United States and our allies to take a firm stand, once and for all.

TML: Malcolm, this is an old story. This is going on for decades. So my question to you, does this differ between President Trump and President Biden, both of whom you have spoken to? Do you see the way that they look at policy with Iran differently?

Malcolm Hoenlein: As you know, I’ve been pushing this issue since the late 1980s. I met Clinton, I met Bush 1, I met Bush 2. I met all of them about this issue, to push them on it. Because it was inevitable that we would see Iran emerge as it has, as a regional force.

TML: Right now, 2024 elections are here, and you have two people that are vying for the same vote. And this issue is very important.

Malcolm Hoenlein: Well, they’re not saying the same things, number one. Number two, well, there was an interesting statement just now by the man who replaced Rob Malley, which is another story for future consultations and discussions. But his replacement actually made a very good statement on the anniversary of the Iran revolution. Now if that reflects a change in policy, which we hope it does, it’s something we will test in the coming weeks and months.

Until now, we have not seen the kind of concerted action against the nuclear program, holding up the transfer of any funds to Iran, directly or indirectly, and to increase the sanctions, which have happened. The Biden Administration put on more sanctions. But we have to be decisive in taking actions that don’t enable them to continue to have the income. Forty percent of the economy is controlled by the supreme leader and the IRGC [Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps]. They are, and many leaders in the IRGC are saying it’s time to take him down. They know, and they don’t want to have a continuation of this because the people are suffering. Half the young people are unemployed. The universities are half-empty. It’s a disaster inside the country. That’s the time when we should support the people to make sure that this regime comes down. We don’t have to declare war. The Iranian people will take care of it.

TML: Minister Gantz [Benny Gantz, a member of Israel’s war cabinet] spoke about the day after and spoke about the fact that if Hamas has to be gone, what do you see as the outcome? Who do you think can emerge as a leader in the Palestinian territories from the talks that the Conference of Presidents has had?

Malcolm Hoenlein: Well, we don’t have somebody in particular in mind. We’re waiting to see what the outcomes of the elections in the United States are, let alone determining what’s going to happen in other countries and other places. But clearly, there is no single force right now. There’s no single individual that can unite the people, which means that there probably has to be some sort of a coalescence. And that’s why I think when the government of Israel suggested that they would be there and help in an interim period, maybe a coalition together with Arab countries, Gulf countries, to come in to stabilize the situation, show the people it’s being rebuilt. Put them to the test to see, as they had a chance 20 years ago, when Israel pulled out of Gaza, to build a viable entity and economy, take advantage of their geographical location and build resorts, build a Singapore, a Hong Kong, anything, there. Which they didn’t do.

So now the test is on both sides. I do believe that you can create a circumstance. You see the demonstrations now by the people of Gaza against Hamas, as you do in Lebanon against Hizbullah. I think that, and by the way, in Iran against the government of Iran, even though we don’t read about it in the Western press, they continue. It’s putting people to the test that sometimes they will rise to the occasion. But not if they’re going to incentivize the most extreme elements, and if they’re going to be rewarded like the leaders of Hamas, living in luxury in Qatar, or even in Gaza, where they had these amazing neighborhoods with most brand name shops and most expensive shopping malls. And the people suffer for it.

So what we have to do is to see if it’s possible, as they rebuild it, to rebuild it in a sound way that really has a responsive regime, some sort of an authority over it, that will be held to account and that will be able to be accountable to the people.

TML: Prior to Oct. 7, there were demonstrations all over Israel to bring down the Israeli government. You see a groundswell beginning to move that way. The Conference of Presidents does play a role in terms of who they sway, who they get behind. How do you feel about what you’re seeing right now?

Malcolm Hoenlein: So, the Conference of Presidents does not get involved in the domestic politics of Israel, and we don’t select candidates. As you see in this conference, we have people from every party, the major leaders, the members of the war cabinet, coming and speaking openly and not taking partisan positions. I think that I would hope that we would not go back to the pre-Oct. 7 condition. You know, the one condition God made for every great miracle that happened to the Jewish people, from when we stood at Mount Sinai as one person with one heart, to the rescue of Russian Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Yemeni Jews, Iranian Jews, Iraqi Jews, Syrian Jews, was that we were united. When Jews are united, there’s no challenge that’s too great. When we’re disunited, every challenge is great.

And that was what I think they interpreted the demonstrations, they misinterpreted what it meant to have differences in views over those issues. I hope that there can be ways to resolve some of them without having to go back to the street, but to remember that our unity is the most critical asset we have. We cannot afford after this very expensive war not to stand together, to deal with the families who have been so badly hurt with the loss of loved ones, all the injured, all of those who are traumatized. It’s going to take great investment to rebuild the economy, to make sure there’s a brighter future.

I think there will be a big aliyah [immigration wave] to Israel after the war, contrary to all logic, especially from Europe. There will be also from the United States. There will be half aliyah, full aliyah. But I think, because of the rise of antisemitism now, many people are rethinking their relationship, and Oct. 7 brought the stark reality home. What Israel really means to each and every one of us.

And even those who are very distant have once again risen to the occasion. You see those who took on the boards of Penn and Harvard and Yale, etc. They were not necessarily as involved or certainly as visible. And non-Jews as well joining them. But I think what Ackman did and what others, standing up to the governments, Ken Griffin. People who have given limitless funds to their universities out of a commitment and appreciation have now cut them off. And we have been looking for this for a long time because the problem on our campuses didn’t just suddenly arise. And now we find it in high schools, we find it in kindergartens. We found these unbelievable amounts of money that Qatar has poured into the university with conditions, and getting in that way scholarship packages and … faculty. But we see a concurrent rise in antisemitism with foreign funding. We have documented [this].

TML: And how can Qatar be an honest broker?

Malcolm Hoenlein: I never said that Qatar should be an honest broker. Qatar is obviously involved. The government of Israel has said so. Others have said so. They have given money to Gaza. I would hope that there will be alternatives, that Qatar has to be held to account, like others, and especially be subject to sanctions, like others, with what they have done. In the United States, they’ve spent hundreds of billions of dollars buying businesses, property, real estate. Hundreds of billions. Not millions.

But also the fact that there’s limited amounts of money going to universities and influencing the course of the day. They’ve become hostile places for Jewish students, for pro-Israel students who are not Jewish. And now we hear even more from faculty members who find the climate on their campuses intolerable for them. So we really are facing a cancerous situation that’s metastasizing.

We need to unite all the resources. There are many wonderful programs. The lawsuits against universities, the exposure, the adoption of IHRA definitions of antisemitism. All of these are partial solutions to a need to recreate a movement, like we did for Soviet Jewry, bringing in allies from the non-Jewish community, whose children are also suffering because of quotas and other things that are being reimposed, not only with Jewish students but Asian Americans and others. And it’s a time when we need unity internally, we need unity externally.

TML: Because I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask, the fact is that the political clout of the Jewish community is far greater than its numbers. You started to bring up that you need our outside communities. But the outside communities, the polls are showing they’re not necessarily with Israel anymore. How do you address that?

Malcolm Hoenlein: By education. We have to do much more to bring them around. Because they are subject to all the influences of the internet, the lies, the distortions, the misrepresentations, which become the factual basis on which you make judgments. So we have to do much more to be creative. On the internet, we have to reach out to those audiences. I see that the evangelical communities remain very strong allies. There is some diminishment amongst their young people. It’s something we and they have to address together to help bring them new information.

Not everybody has to be in lockstep with us or our particular views, but to recognize the right of Israel to exist, to reject any “river to the sea,” except to be Hamas-free, and to understand what those messages mean. And most young people today have no idea what river, what sea, even though they’re shouting it. And they have joined in these movements as a protest movement, you know, like the Vietnam era. … It’s a very disturbing phenomenon, but we see that these extremist elements get all the attention. The good kids and the guys who are rejecting it and the people who stand against it get hardly any notice.

And the mood has become one that the woke culture has really cleverly captured, whether it’s a city council or the board of a university, infusing themselves into so many decisions, even corporate decisions. We have to stand against each and every one of them. And for that we need the resources of the entire community. There are people who are spending huge amounts of money, and we’re winning many battles, but we’re losing the war. Now we have to win the war, and that will come from concerted efforts, building coalitions with others, but first and foremost mobilizing the Jewish community to act in a united, concerted way.

TML: Malcolm, thank you.

Malcolm Hoenlein: You’re very welcome. Thank you very much, it was my pleasure.