Ambassador Mark Regev to TML: If Military Action on Iran Is Necessary, Israel Could Go It Alone

Former senior diplomat and adviser to Prime Minister Netanyahu says the new government must be judged by its actions

Ambassador Mark Regev is a veteran diplomat who currently chairs the Abba Eban Institute for Diplomacy and Foreign Relations at Reichman University. He served as the prime minister’s senior adviser for foreign affairs and international communications and was Israel’s ambassador to the United Kingdom. Previously, he was the international spokesman for the Prime Minister’s Office. Mark Regev is also a visiting fellow at the Institute for National Security.

TML: Thank you so much for joining me here at The Media Line!

Mark Regev: My pleasure!

TML: Ambassador Regev, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has gotten his fair share of negative press from those not liking the new government’s political alignment, even before it had a chance to govern or to flesh out its policies. Is it fair to call out the alarm bells yet?

Mark Regev: I think the government should be given the credit that it is due. It is a democratically elected government. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, and this government has been freely elected by the Israeli people. Some might like the results. Some might not like the results, but I think that we should all respect the process.

Now, I have been hearing from leaders from across the globe and they have been saying that they would judge this Israeli government by its actions, and I think that is fair. I think that is the right approach to take, and I think that is what people should be doing.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (L) with Ambassador Mark Regev. (Courtesy)

TML: What are the priorities of the new Israeli government in your estimation?

Mark Regev: I would put them in two categories. Priorities on the domestic front and priorities on the international front. On the domestic front, of course, dealing with the rising prices in Israel obviously, for Israeli voters. Often pocketbook issues are crucial, and of course, they don’t get the traction in the international media, those issues are very, very important to Israelis, and the government will be tested and challenged on its ability to control rising prices.

Anyone who watched the news last night on the three television networks in Israel would have seen that rising prices was the opening story on all of them. So, that is one issue of domestic concern. Another issue of domestic concern is what we call lawlessness in parts of Israeli society. There is no doubt that across the board both on the Left and on the Right, there is a feeling in Israel that the police need to get on top of crime and law enforcement. Law and order. These things have to be put back on track, and I think that here the new Israeli government will have a priority.

On the international arena, I think the new government of Israel will be focused on, of course, maintaining our very strong alliance with the United States of America; our most international partner. At the same time, to strengthen relationships with Europe. And of course, a huge priority on our Arab peace partners, whether it’s the older Arab peace partners of Egypt and Jordan, or it’s the newer peace partners in the Gulf, the [United Arab] Emirates and Bahrain, [as well as] Morocco in North Africa.

These countries, who we signed with in 2020 the Abraham Accords Agreements… I know that Prime Minister Netanyahu has already spoken to some of the leaders of some of these countries, and I think he is expected to visit some of them very, very soon. I think the larger challenge is how do we cement the peace that has already been signed and put more meat on the bones, so to speak, and expand those relationships and make them stronger and deeper by strengthening the different levels of cooperation and the different avenues of cooperation. But I think the bigger challenge is how do we expand the so-called peace and see other Arab and Muslim countries join the circle of peace. I think that is something that Prime Minister Netanyahu can be expected to do.

TML: All eyes are on Saudi Arabia, the crown jewel of the Middle East. Do you think that there is a possibility despite the fact that the Saudi government is stating clearly that Israel needs to get in the game in terms of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict?

Mark Regev: So, I believe peace with Saudi Arabia, the normalization of relationships between Jerusalem and Riyadh; I think it is inevitable. The only question is to the timing. Will it happen in the coming months, or will we have to wait a bit longer? And here I don’t know. There are many, many moving parts.

One part that Israel has very little control over is US-Saudi relations. There is no doubt that America played an important role in achieving the Abraham Accords, and if American-Saudi relationships are not as good as they could be, maybe that has a negative impact on Israel as well. But we’ll have to wait and see. I hope it happens soon. I just do not know.

TML: Some media made it sound as if the government will not find support in the international community unless it adopts specific policies, whether it is a pact with the Palestinians or an agreement with the US on Iranian policy. Are those who are writing the new government’s obituary doing it too prematurely?

Mark Regev: Definitely! And I think on both issues you raise, there is a nuance that was not there a few years ago. Firstly, on the Iranian issue. If there were concerns in Israel not that long ago that the Biden Administration was racing forward to recommit to the JCPOA, the defunct, very flawed deal that was signed with Iran, and there were concerns in Israel that the Biden Administration was trying to revisit that deal, especially after it sort of abandoned its earlier calls for a stronger and longer deal, those concerns have been sidelined.

I mean, there is no doubt that the Iranian position in America and throughout the West has been damaged severely by both its brutal treatment of the freedom protestors across Iran. The protests that broke out in September [2022] have much support and sympathy across the West. The idea that this regime is killing its people, specifically killing its young women, who just want the basic freedoms that they are entitled to, I think the Iranian regime has lost a lot of its cachet, any sort of legitimacy that it had abroad, it has lost much of that by the way it is treating its people and the brutal suppression of the protestors.

And at the same time, of course, Iran has been helping Russia on its war on Ukraine. And literally hundreds of Iranian-made drones have already been fired at Ukrainian cities by the Russian forces. On both those issues, the United States and the West has a serious problem with Tehran, and I think it is possible that we will not have to see a US-Israel disagreement on Iran precisely because it appears that a return to the JCPOA, at least for the moment, seems not to be on the agenda. I think the White House itself has publicly addressed this and said that this cannot happen as long as Iran is supporting the Russian war effort in Ukraine as it is and as it is murdering its own people as they crack down on the demonstrations.

So, it’s possible that the Iranian issue which was such a bone of contention during the term of the previous American president, Barack Obama, it does not have to be necessarily a bone of contention now in the Biden-Netanyahu relationship.

On the Palestinian issue, I think we have also moved on a bit. I think that there is increasing understanding in Washington that the Palestinians are a flawed peace partner. I mean, in the past, [to] many in Europe and even in America it was all Israel’s fault. It was always Israel’s fault. Israel had to be more forthcoming. Israel had to be more flexible. The onus was always placed on Israel, and I think today there is an understanding that Israel can’t do it all by itself. That the Palestinians are a flawed peace partner, and that the idea that somehow all Israel has to do is press some magic button and there is an immediate breakthrough, I think it’s understood that that is just not realistic.

TML: What will change it?

Mark Regev: I think ultimately the way forward has to be through the Abraham Accords because by moving forward where it is possible to move forward, and that is Israel’s relationship with the Arab world and Israel’s relationship with the Muslim world, by pushing those relationships, by making Israel a part of the Middle East, by having one peace breakthrough after another with the Arab world and Muslim countries, you are creating a new reality.

The Palestinians are not ready to recognize the Jewish state. If the Palestinians are not ready for the sort of compromises that will be needed for them to make peace with Israel, I think that by Israel being better integrated into the region, by Israel being seen by our Arab neighbors not as an enemy but as a partner, as a friend, as an ally when they see the cooperation that exists between Israel across the Arab world. I think that has to in the medium-term and the long-term affect Palestinian opinion as well and hopefully lead to peace between us and the Palestinians.

TML: You brought up Ukraine, and specifically I want to address the issue of Israel having to find a place in the middle because of the need to have Russia as a friend and the overflies through Syria. Do you think Prime Minister Netanyahu is going to stay the course set by his predecessor when it comes to the Ukraine war?

Mark Regev: So, I don’t accept the characterization that Israel is playing it in the middle. Israel condemned the Russian invasion when it happened. We have repeatedly voted that way in the United Nations. We’re not neutral. We’re not evenhanded. We’ve said straight out we think Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine, and we’ve called on Russia to withdraw.

And we’ve supported repeatedly Israel’s statements are our support for Ukraine’s territorial integrity and its sovereignty, so Israel is not neutral in this issue. We’re part of the Western consensus. Where we have drawn a line for our own reasons is we have said we will not sell [to] Ukraine offensive military capabilities. In other words, we’ve sold them defensive equipment like helmets and body armor and other defensive measures that help keep people alive.

We’ve accepted refugees from the Ukraine. We’ve brought Ukrainians here for emergency medical treatment. We’ve established a field hospital in Ukraine. We’ve given massive humanitarian support for the Ukrainian people, but what we haven’t done, is that we haven’t given Ukraine offensive military capabilities and the reason for this as you ended in the question, is that we are concerned about a Russian blowback because the Russians are just across our northern border. And Israel has an interest in [that].

While we support the Ukraine, we don’t want to see the evaporation, the disintegration of the deconfliction understandings that were reached with Moscow a few years ago. I mean, ultimately Russia is a power in Syria today. Israel is active in Syria. If one believes news reports, almost every night Israel is attacking an Iranian or a Hizbullah position somewhere in Syria. Those positions are often immediately adjacent to Russian military positions, and the Russians so far have not become involved, and Israel has freedom of the skies over Syria. And that’s a crucial national security interest of the State of Israel.

And so, while we support the Ukraine, our decision to not sell them offensive military capabilities is precisely because while supporting them across the board on a whole host of issues, we see that on those issues we don’t want to see our deconfliction understandings reached with Moscow endangered.

Having said that, I think in the past, Israel, which is part of the West – unequivocally part of the West – is very critical of [President] Putin’s invasion [of the Ukraine]. At the same time, because we’ve remained with these channels of communication to the Kremlin, the West has used us to try to mediate, to try and pass messages to Moscow. You will recall last year when then Prime Minister Naftali Bennett went to Moscow at the request of the Ukrainian president and the German chancellor to see if it was possible to achieve a cease-fire and a Russian pullout.

Now, I would think that the Ukraine and the West has an interest in Israel maintaining that flexibility, in Israel maintaining that open communication with the Kremlin, because ultimately this conflict can go on for years in a stalemate with much bloodshed with no side being able to decisively defeat the other, and that is what experts believe.

Or there could be a diplomatic solution, and I believe that Israel, which is a part of the West, is positioned, maybe uniquely positioned, to help deliver a peaceful, diplomatic solution. I hope that’s possible.

TML: You recently wrote a piece for The Jerusalem Post in which you extolled the long personal relationship between Prime Minister Netanyahu and US President Joe Biden. How far do you think that will carry if Israeli policy is at odds with the United States?

Mark Regev: So when you do not have policy differences, it’s not important. But when you do have policy differences, and it’s unclear to me as to whether we will have significant policy differences with the United States. Once again, I addressed before the issue of Iran, which could have been a serious bone of contention, seems to be sidelined at the moment through the Iranian behavior with Russia and the Ukraine and the way they are dealing with the protestors – the people who want freedom.

And the issue of the Palestinians doesn’t necessarily have to be a bone of contention either precisely because I think it’s understood increasingly in Washington that the Palestinians are a flawed peace partner. So, if we do have differences, and it’s possible that there will be differences… First of all, not every difference has to be a crisis. Not every disagreement between Jerusalem and Washington has to generate some sort of international crisis, yes?

But having said that, when there are disagreements, if you have a good personal relationship at the top, and you do, Prime Minister Netanyahu knows President Biden for some 40 years when they were both much younger. They met in the early 1980s in Washington when Netanyahu was the No. 2 at the Israeli Embassy in DC, and Biden was a junior senator, a young senator from Delaware. They forged a friendship there; a friendship that has endured for the last four decades.

I’ve heard that when they’ve spoken on the phone there is a warmth there, an affinity between the two. And that could be especially important in times of crisis, and I myself witnessed their conversations during the 2021 Gaza War when there were some critical moments and the Biden conversations with Netanyahu were crucial.

And so, I think that that personal relationship that has existed, the friendship that has existed between these two men can actually augment and help us overcome the bumps of the road when they do arise.

TML: The intricacies of the new government are not insignificant. Understanding who speaks to what responsibilities is not going to be an easy matter and there will be doubtless arguments over who is responsible for what. It seems to be a daunting task, so who is going to be directing traffic?

Mark Regev: So, I do not think Benjamin Netanyahu will return to the Prime Minister’s Office just to play second fiddle to other people in the coalition. Let’s be clear: This is a man who is Israel’s longest-serving prime minister, and he didn’t fight his way back to the top to play second fiddle.

I mean, he unprecedently became Israel’s longest-serving prime minister since Israel’s first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, but he’s also unprecedently won a third term at Balfour; at the Prime Minister’s Office. We’ve had other prime ministers who’ve made comebacks but we’ve never had a prime minister before who has lost the office twice [only] to return, and that is Netanyahu. And he’s done it to implement his own agenda.

And of course, he has coalition partners that he has to take into account. All Israeli governments have been coalition governments. Minority parties in the coalition want to have their presence felt. That’s natural. That’s part of politics. But I have no doubt that Netanyahu will not allow coalition partners to dominate his agenda. He didn’t fight his way back up to the top to see others dominate his new government. That’s for sure.

TML: Much of the concern expressed for the government has come as a result of laws passed in order to accommodate the personal situations of ministers designate. Do you think it is a healthy situation to modify the nation’s laws so an Aryeh Deri can serve in parliament after serving in prison himself?

Mark Regev: I think it’s not the first time in Israel that we’ve had these sort of laws, and I think that it’s important to realize none of these things are surprises in that someone like Aryeh Deri who has had his problems with the law in the past and went to jail even, but he nevertheless was elected with a sizable Knesset faction and the Israeli people who voted for him knew about this history. And so, you have a principle here of democracy. If everything was transparent and this person nevertheless was voted back to the Knesset with a sizable majority, can this person be neutralized politically? And the answer, I don’t think can be yes.

Ultimately, this man went to jail [and] paid his price and after being out of public life for a certain amount of time has come back and has been elected. I think even the critics have to accept that his mandate from the people is genuine and that his desire to be in government is ordered by all of those thousands who voted for him.

TML: He was placed as interior minister, and therefore he may have to be denying entry into Israel for those who might have criminal records in a position that he was in as well. Is there a conflict of interest?

Mark Regev: I don’t think so necessarily, and don’t forget, in Israel we have checks and balances, and any decision taken by the minister of the interior that is unacceptable is challenged immediately in the courts. And as you know, our courts have a history of independence and professionalism, so I am not particularly worried about those issues.

TML: So, what do you say to those who say Israel is anti-democratic?

Mark Regev: I’d say it’s just not true. I’d say it’s a slander. I mean, we’ve just come out of a very robust and democratic free election. Once again, we’re the only country in the Middle East that has such free elections. We’ve got an independent judiciary. We’ve got a free and open and very critical media. On what basis does anyone say Israel’s not democratic? It’s ridiculous!

Israel has a multiple NGO society. We have freedom of speech, freedom of organization, freedom of the press. I mean, what freedom do we supposedly don’t have in Israel? I just do not understand. I mean, if people want to play politics, yes, and they say well Israel’s new government is not democratic, so they say it – that’s playing politics. But substantively, what’s not democratic about Israel? This government was elected by the people!

TML: Ambassador Regev, the new finance minister repealed two taxes, one on sweet drinks and one on disposable goods. There are many issues that need addressing. Is this a glimpse of what’s to come? Why is it so important right now?

Mark Regev: Let’s judge this government by its actions. The issues you raised were an electoral promise that was made, and therefore I think the finance minister felt a need to do that at the very beginning, but I think one has to look at the whole context and not take one decision… and let’s see how this new – he’s never been finance minister before – let’s see how he behaves. Let’s see how he acts. Let’s see what he does for the Israeli economy, and as we said in the earlier part of this interview, economic issues are front and center. Because for Israelis, those pocketbook issues are often central.

TML: There are only five women out of 30 ministers in the newly formed government, pushing Israel below many countries in the region with [MK] Gila Gamliel being named intelligence minister. Israel claims to be the only democracy, as you just said, in the region, and yet the numbers tell sometimes a different story.

Mark Regev: Well, I think if you actually look at Prime Minister Netanyahu’s party, you see more women, and that’s a good thing. And some very senior women in the party. Of the coalition partners, obviously the ultra-Orthodox parties have historically not been open to women in leadership positions and that you have to raise with them. Netanyahu doesn’t choose for them how they treat women, and so that possibly affects the balance in a negative way. I’m sure Netanyahu would like to see more women in the government.

Having said that, he’s said publicly, if some of these, let us say, more clericalist elements in the government have expressed concerns about the empowering of women or about LGBT rights and so forth, Netanyahu has drawn a line in the sand and said that nothing in this government will undermine the freedoms and equality that all Israelis enjoy today.

TML: Could we go back for a moment to Prime Minister Netanyahu and [President] Biden and their alignments? You mentioned Iran and you mentioned some of the issues at large, including the Israeli-Palestinian issue. Do you see anything else that comes up, or will come up in the coming year that is a crucial alliance between the two countries?

Mark Regev: I’m not sure. I know because they know each other well, I don’t think that Netanyahu will want to surprise the president with anything, and I hope it won’t be the other way around. Having said that, Iran is always an issue where Israel will reserve its right to act, and if we believe that the Iranians are getting dangerously close to a weapon and that necessitates Israeli military action, I think Israel could go it alone. And I don’t know how the United States will react to that. I hope they would understand, but I don’t think that Netanyahu will be willing to subcontract out Israel’s most vital national security. And in that situation, you could have tension between Israel and the United States.

I do hope that America and Israel can reach understandings on Iran. Like, it’s clear that we’re not going back to the JCPOA anytime soon. It’s clear the Iranians are rapidly moving forward to a bomb. And I would hope that America and Israel can reach understandings where they work together to prevent Iran from getting a bomb. Once again, in the absence of that, however, Israel will of course reserve the right to act by itself to defend its people.

I mean, Iran with a nuclear bomb, that’s something that Israel just cannot tolerate. Maybe for some people in America that’s just another policy challenge. For Israel, that would be a major issue. It would be an existential issue. And Netanyahu has said in the past, and many of his ministers have said similar things, that just could not accept such a reality, and that’s something I think to watch very, very closely.

TML: We spoke during your tenure as Israel’s ambassador to the UK, and you said that it was important to engage and build bridges with the Muslim community. What should this new government be doing to include the Arab society and to deal with the inner-city crime which we spoke about earlier that is so rampant, particularly in the last years?

Mark Regev: So, there are two issues that you raise. The one is domestically, and that’s Israel’s Arab minority, and I believe that they have an interest, as has been stated by Prime Minister Netanyahu, to get crime levels down in the Arab community, because the people who suffer from them most, from their crime, is the Israeli Arab community.

And so, I think Netanyahu will find many partners domestically as the government tries to deal with lawlessness in the Arab sector – lawlessness that just takes too many lives, that prevents businesses from flourishing, and I think here there’s a common interest between the government and Israel’s Arab citizens to work together closely to see what can be done and to defeat this crime wave that we’re seeing over the last few months.

On the larger issue, internationally, I think by strengthening our relationships with our peace partners, with our new Abraham Accords countries, and by expanding the circle of peace, I think that’s an important message to the Arab and Muslim world.

There’s no reason for us to fight. We have to overcome the differences of the past and work together. And let’s remember what we have in common. We and the Arab countries are equally troubled by Iran. We’re worried about Iran’s role in the region, its support for terrorism, its quest for a nuclear weapon, its support for extremists throughout the region. We see Iran in Iraq. We see Iran in Syria. We see Iran in Lebanon. We see Iran in Yemen. Neither us, in Israel, nor the Arab countries, want to see this very aggressive revolutionary regime trying to dominate the Middle East and threaten our security and our independence. So here there’s common bonds between us and countries across the Arab world.

We also have a common interest in making sure that the extremists in groups like ISIS and al-Qaida don’t get on the front burner again. We have much what we can do. When we all have an interest, us and the Arab countries, of course, in strong relationships with the West, economic relationships, security relationships, and so when we find our new Arab peace partners, we work with them, I think that’s a very important message not only for Muslims in the Arab world, but that’s important for Muslims across the globe, both in the West and in Muslim countries.

TML: As the penultimate spokesman, you’ve taken a back seat from politics. What’s the reason?

Mark Regev: Oh, I have a great job at the moment! As you said, I’m the head of the Abba Eban Center for Diplomacy and International Relations at Reichman University in Herzliya, Israel. And at our institute, we are working hard on some of these issues we’ve been talking about. And also, because I am now outside of government, I have the freedom to write and to talk and to teach on these issues which I did not have when I was in government. And I am very happy where I am.

TML: Ambassador Mark Regev, a pleasure to have you with The Media Line, and we hope to come back to you as Prime Minister Netanyahu’s government continues and we’ll see what is at work.

Mark Regev: Thank you for having me!